Note: Closing this debate as it has unfortunately degenerated as well as not getting much engagement.
Note: Important edit just to clarify what this debate is about and what it is not about. What it is not about is specifically all life in general. It is about what sets the criteria for the beginning of individual human life as well as what sets the criteria for what deems viability of personhood. In addition to this, the correct reference material has been added as that wasn't added the first time. If you don't find what you're looking for here then you can definitely find it in the reference at the end and go onto to check other references thereafter.
Out of the following scientific views, what do you think is the strongest argument for when an ontological human individual life begins. And What do you think holds to be the strongest in terms of the viability of personhood?
While this debate is in relation to the abortion debate it is also largely in part to do with what scientific view that you think holds the strongest and why. Now, there are different views about when human life begins. Some of these views are philosophical, others scientific.
And with that being said, it might also appear that there is some
the overlap between both views. Nonetheless, the current scientific views
are:
- Metabolic View
- Genetic View
- Embryological View
- Neurological View
- Ecological/Technological View
Out of all of them, I find the genetic view to be the weakest. The genetic view is also one that if favored by a lot of the public, especially anti-abortionist activists. The genetic view is that human life does begin at conception. However, there are multiple scientific studies that contradict this notion. Now, I understand that in some US states laws on abortion are changing or have changed and that this has been done via the help of a few expert testimonies making claims that either state or imply that human life does begin at conception. However, a few expert witnesses in one or a few states is no match for the overwhelming amount of scientific studies across the globe that contradicts the notion that human life does begin at conception.
One
the argument that attempts to contradict the conclusions made from various studies about life not beginning at conception is what Alan Holland said which was that just because a zygote is capable of dividing does not mean it isn't an individual before it divides. By contrast, however, one could contend still that neither does this mean it is an individual; it's just a zygote. Furthermore, other proponents of the genetic view go on to claim that the key point is that human life may begin as a result of the zygote. This is where I also personally think the argument via conception breaks down. Because by stating that a
zygote may become human life is not that much different than saying that sperm used in the right manner may also become a human life one day.
Moreover,
the stances that I personally deem to be the strongest are both the
Embryological and metabolic view. The Embryological view is the stage at which the beginning development of individuation has begun,
approximately three weeks after pregnancy. This is also the stance that is adopted by the British Government. My reason for finding this a strong stance is due to the aforementioned individuation development as well as the fact that at this point the unborn can no longer divide into multiple other individuals. The metabolic view is that sperm and eggs should be considered living organisms which they are by the way but these proponents also go on to say that they should be treated as any other living organism. The metabolic view is a strong one because it is in alignment with the fact that human life, in general, begins before conception. I.E sperm is alive,
eggs are alive, cells are alive and much more. In fact, these things have to be alive in order to create new living entities. However, with the Embryological view, I think this is advocating that single human life has begun at this stage which is at the stage of gastrulation.
With
respect to the other views I think they are bordering more onto what constitutes viability and person-hood. The Ecological/Technological
the view is more about if and when an unborn can survive outside the womb. With the Neurological view, I think there is some overlap with when human life begins and when personhood begins. I think both of these stances do hold some merit at least up to the point after the 24th week of pregnancy. However, not so much merit with regards to when human life actually begins.
In summary,
there are few things that we can be almost certain of with regard to the abortion debate. For one, that is that there is no strong scientific consensus on when human life beings. However, most of the medical profession and the government, at least the British Government is that after 24 weeks of pregnancy you need a very good reason for abortion.
And further to that, the abortion debate remains a highly controversial debate with a barrage of moral complexities.
References:
Debra AI Prediction
Post Argument Now Debate Details +
Arguments
Consider a similar question: at which point exactly does a seed become a flower? If we were to put a CCTV camera and record the whole growth process, then at what second on the recording would we say, "a second ago it was not yet a flower, but now it is"?
We know that a little baby is a human, but a sperm cell is not. Human life begins somewhere in between, but there is a transitory stage in between human and non-human, which one could call "protohuman", similar to how a star during its formation experiences the "protostar" period, where the nucleosynthesis has not begun yet, or has only partially begun, yet the temperature and density of the gas has become high enough for it to be comparable to "complete" stars.
It is an old philosophical question: "If we take a chair and start chopping out small splints of wood one by one, then when does it cease to be a chair?" That there is no satisfactory answer to this after multiple millennia of heated philosophical discussions shows how non-trivial this type of questions really is.
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None, really, as I do not see how this question can have a proper answer, for the reasons I described above: there is no point at which human life begins, where it was not there a second ago. We do not even have a proper definition of life in general, for that matter. Is a highly advanced AI alive, for example?
It is a purely terminological question, involving ill-defined terms, hence I do not see how it can be answered. Something more concrete, such as "What traits should the proto-human creature develop in order to be called human?", would be a better question, and even that runs into the problem of our lack of proper definition of what a "human" is.
Biology is an interesting science in that it deals with a lot of edge cases, and almost all definitions there imply a lot of but-s and feature countless exceptions. It is different from chemistry or physics, where generally we have mathematically precise definitions for what we are talking about.
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Ovulation on the introduction of an egg to the reproductive tract. The scientific keyword is begun now where can it be pronounced as determined by vote.
Science holds only a united state on the official pronouncement of death. No egg, no life, this would be the United States Constitutional Start To Life home court rule. Where sex has the baseball pseudonym's, pregnancy gets the basketball pseudonym's. Pregnancy is the swish nothing but net, some cheer, some cry, others scram fowls. It is still just a one on one pick up game.
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What is life if you're born in a permanent vegetative state?? Sure you're human but are you alive? Is that living and is it enough to warrant ascribing value to this state of existence??
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"When exactly does human life begin?"
It begins, with a second chance called Adoption.
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The beginning of life has nothing to do with science understanding living and everything to do with the start of life recorded as location, where. The start of life has nothing to do with when an order to officially stop any transition of a state of life takes place.
Conception is the point where two humans under the age of consent race toward the end of a short life span, meet, one dies, the other changes a state of life. It is related to a place where the two humans, minor, no longer move towards their own demise together in two locations. Regardless of any self-incrimination to express a change in the privacy of the minor one of those minors is a murder.
A woman has no control over her body why?
In order to stop this process, it would be required to place herself in danger and basically kill herself by starvation. officially stopping your life is not really control over your body.
When does life begin?
The moment a boy can put cards in the spokes of the bike tire and ride off with a girl on the handlebars of the bike. The moment a little girl and boy play doctor or show and tell. The moment a boy or girl has a changed body that generates a material capable to become independent from them.
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When exactly does a human individual life begin?
No , I advocated nothing , how could I know what no one seems to know? My analogy I thought might provide illumination into why I think this way but either way it’s only my opinion
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"Out of the following scientific views, what do you think is the strongest argument for when an ontological human individual life begins. And What do you think holds to be the strongest in terms of the viability of personhood?"
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**** I didn't say you personally. I said one or more of you.
What is one or “more of you “ regards my response?
**** Also, please remember this is what the discussion is about:
"Out of the following scientific views, what do you think is the strongest argument for when an ontological human individual life begins. And What do you think holds to be the strongest in terms of the viability of personhood?"
all subjective views nothing else
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****
You’ve lost me
***By the way, you appear very angry and defensive right now.
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**** ; I am here for proper rational discourse
You’re not , from the start I made a statement that was entirely fair and accurate, you didn’t like it .....fine , but now you play the injured party claiming you were “attacked “ where no such thing happened in fact it’s you who went on a rant all because I didn’t give you the answer you wanted .
**** it actively undermines it as well as being a clear reflection of desperation on your part.
Desperation at what is beyond me , don’t fret you will get the response you want
*** where you just attack the person
Something I asked you to prove but you cannot
***as well as making arguments against stuff that was never stated or implied I.E strawmen;
I made no arguments , I gave an opinion like others who disagreed but for some reason you’re out for blood
Really ? Maybe you should give it a go if not I couldn’t care less either way
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I also mentioned something about the viability if you got it?
I'm calling you and @MayCaesar on the off chance that we might have now a proper discussion going, now that things have been updated and edited. Now, it's been updated and edited I think there might be room for engagement.
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